Apologies for the hiatus from B5. After watching this AMAZING episode (I’m late with the report, I know), Jeff and I decided to take a brief break to catch up with Lost. We don’t tend to spend much time watching tv, so time was an issue.
Into The Fire seemed like a good place to take a break since I have a feeling that it will be MUCH more difficult to stop from now on.
Londo has been promoted to Prime Minister and is thus one step closer to the throne. I liked the little exchange between Londo and Vir when Londo accidentally sits in the Emperor’s throne. 
I’m glad Sheridan kept his promise to Ivanova about having her with the fleet.
Delenn: I will tell her to “haul ass” but I don’t think that is a dignified position for someone who’s in command of one of the White Star fleet.
Ivanova (to Lorien): You’re awfully impatient for someone who’s supposed to be immortal.
Interesting to learn more about the First. I’m still not sure I entirely trust him, though. I like his advice to Ivanova about embracing love, though, and I hope she takes it! Marcus is looking particularly appealing this episode.
Londo discovers that Refa didn’t kill Adira after all, but that Morden was responsible, and manipulated Londo.
Interesting how Morden seems convinced that the Vorlons would never attack Centauri because of the large civilian population. I wonder if he would have been right? Can’t blame Londo for not wanting to take the chance.
Brilliant move on Londo’s part, killing Morden’s invisible Shadow buddies.
AND the Shadow Ships hiding on Centauri:
Chilling when Mr. Morden yells at Londo that the Shadows’ allies will destroy Centauri Prime for what Londo did. And then Londo says that he hasn’t yet begun.
And as gruesome as it is, I couldn’t help but cheer when Vir gave his little smile and wave to Morden’s spiked head. Morden SO deserved that!
Holy cow, amazing battle scenes. That moving black cloud following the Shadow Ships is pretty creepy.
Sheridan sets off nukes in the middle of the Vorlons and Shadowships to “get their attention.”
Cheered when the First Ones got called in. Their ships may be funny-looking, but their firepower is truly impressive! Cool to see all the different ship designs and weaponry.
It must have been difficult for Vir to tell Londo that there was still a Shadow influence on Centauri Prime…Londo himself.
Moving to see how much Londo truly cares for his people, that he would beg Vir to kill him so that the Vorlons would spare the planet.
The sight of that planet-killing ship in the sky was pretty scary (and cool):
But then Lyta goes all Willow (Buffy reference):
I confess I got a bit confused by what Lorien was saying, that “he” was hoping that the others could be provoked into doing this. Who’s he? Sheridan?
Sheridan’s mind is sent to talk to the Vorlons, and Delenn’s mind is sent to talk with the Shadows.
The woman in the plastic with her arms crossed doesn’t look like angelic Kosh, though. Why does Sheridan see her differently than he saw Kosh?
Fascinating sequence, hearing the different arguments.
And I -loved- Sheridan’s and Delenn’s speeches to the Vorlons and the Shadows.
Sheridan: It’s over because we decide it’s over! Now, get the hell out of our galaxy! Both of you!
Sheridan rocks.
Interesting to hear the Shadows ask if Lorien would go with them to some place beyond the Rim, and the Vorlons seek reassurance that they will not be alone.
Sheridan: We are all alone now, just the younger races. We can’t blame anyone else from now on. It’s a new age, Delenn, a third age.
Delenn: Why third?
Sheridan: We begun in chaos, too primitive to make our own decisions. Then we were manipulated from outside by forces that thought they knew what was best for us. And now .. now we are finally standing on our own. Lorien was right, it’s a great responsibility. This is ours now.
Delenn: Strange. The galaxy seems somehow smaller now that the First Ones are gone forever.
Sheridan: It feels like the magic’s gone now.
Delenn: No, not gone. Now we make our own magic. Now we create our own legends. Now we build the future. Now we stop…
Sheridan: …being afraid of shadows.
Yay, Londo’s going back to B5! I’m glad that he proved that he’s not all bad, though his hands are still stained with the blood of so many Narns. What will the relationship be like between Londo and G’Kar from now on, I wonder? Don’t tell me.
And we still don’t know what’s going with Garibaldi, do we?
This episode felt SO much like the end of a season or even the end of the series. Looking forward to seeing what happens next….
Next episode: Epiphanies
[For those who comment below: As the title of my blog indicates, I'm watching B5 for the very first time so PLEASE refrain from posting plot/character spoilers/hints about upcoming episodes, or including links to pages with spoilers (unless you warn readers that they contain spoilers). More info about spoilers here. Thanks so much! - Debbie]
9 comments ↓
The speeches are even more impressive when you consider that, ultimately, what they’re telling the Vorlons and the Shadows is, “Yes, you can kill us… but you can’t make us play your game any more”.
My only problem is with how fast JMS “wrapped up” the Shadow war. Yes, I know why it happened. But I was still miffed when it did happen. At least take 2 or 2 & a half episodes to finish the war.
A four year build-up to this point in the story and it’s over in 15 minutes??? Simply because Sheridan & the Alliance tells them “we won’t play your game?” After how many thousands of years (10,000?), the Shadows & Vorlons are simply going to quit? Ride off into the sunset? After all that time, they are truly fanatics and for me, it’s not realistic that they would give up their fanatic self-righteousness.
I felt the same way about many ST:The Next Gen episodes. Take a significant issue, complicate it a little, and then wrap it all neatly up in less than 10 minutes at the end of the episode?
But I can’t hold a grudge about it. The build-up to this point has been so grand, I can’t. And the rest of the story… no spoilers.
I think it’s supposed to be ice that the Vorlon speaker is in. Frozen in perfect order — just as the constantly moving, constantly changing Shadow representative epitomizes chaos.
Even if for nothing else, this episode is worth it just to see Vir do his little wave to Morden, as promised. What a thoughtful present!
“For me? Londo, you shouldn’t have!”
I didn’t realize that the shadow from Morden’s head fell at Vir’s feet. Good detail Joe and effects crew.
Londo finding out about Adira-note how much of that scence is one take.
I’m okay, you’re okay, let’s leave the galaxy alone. Actually this episode *could* be a good end to the whole story, but there is much more to come. Stories yet to tell get us back to the Earth situation and what is happening on Minbar and with Delenn.
Here’s a bit of viewing advice from the Lurker’s guide and myself, after the next two episodes, between 74, The Illusion of Truth and 75, Atonement watch the made for TV movie Thirdspace. It can be seen as a stand-alone episode, but the action takes place between these two episodes.
I then watched, and would also recommend watching another B5 movie, In the Beginning, which goes back to give details of the earlier days of our characters. Atonement then ends up giving more details to part of what was in the movie, instead of also being a recap, which I think is a better balance. In the Beginning then gives one detail out that goes from ‘oh that happened’ to ‘okay, I know, but how does that happen’.
Welcome back, I thought you got Lost. {grin}
I’ve been careful in what follows not to give any actual spoilers… Hope I’ve got it right…
By the time this ep. aired most fans of the show were aware that production of the intended fifth season was in doubt, and that Season 4 had been re-structured by JMS to make sure the whole B5 story got told.
People often assume that by the original, “Into the Fire” would have been the penultimate episode (or pair of eps) of S4, with the season finale then showing the dust *just* beginning to settle, reminding everyone of all the issues still unresolved back home (for multiple “back homes” =:o} ), and pulling a couple of those threads into the foreground to act as a cliffhanger and a hook for Season 5… They then wail about how horribly compressed the war story is, from 22 eps down to just 6!
However, based on how keen JMS was to tell the *post*-war story, I somehow doubt he would have placed the end of the war at the end of S4 and risk having everyone say “well, that’s that then!” and not bother to tune in for S5. I reckon “Into the Fire” would have been a two parter at the mid season, then leaving 10 or 11 eps to set up new threads, tangle them up with some old ones, and end the season with it very clear that *multiple* stories are still ongoing.
Whatever the original plan was, the first 6 or 7 eps of S4 is a squished version of what should have been, leaving room for the key plot lines of “original S5″ to play out properly.
And then, at the eleventh hour, they managed to secure a fifth season after all. Boy, that must have been a complicated bundle of relief and a frustration! “If only we’d known this just a month ago, we could’ve shot some extra scenes, de-compressed a couple of eps, dropped in the seeds of a couple of the new plot lines, pushed a few wrap-up moments to next year, avoided some casting issues…”
[SIGH]
Every now and then I threaten to dig out my S4 and S5 DVDs, rip the whole lot to my harddrive, and try to reconstruct “Season 4-And-A-Half: The Way It Should Have Been”. Tough job, but someone’s gotta do it. =:o}
(Anyone tempted to point out to me the seventeen different reasons why it’s impossible - Remember, no spoilers! =>:o} )
Movies: I strongly advise not watching In the Beginning until after you have seen “Atonemen”.
Compressed season: had S5 been committed, S4 would have played out differently (as Paul said). JMS once said that it would not have ended with this episode, though; he named a specific later episode that he planned to have as a cliffhanger, which I won’t mention now lest I spoil something. (I’ll try to remember to mention it when Debbie gets to that episode.)
I remember watching this a was blown away by JMS ending the shadow war this way, not to mention at the half point of the season.
I have to disagree with DJ, in that this was the only way to beat the vorlon and shadows… is to talk them out of war. There would be no way to better them out of pure force.
“This episode felt SO much like the end of a season or even the end of the series.”
Oh don’t worry, there is still plenty more of the B5 extravaganza in the rest of season 4 and in season 5. This doesn’t even compare to the actual series finale IMHO.
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